Copywriter by day. Freelance Rockstar by night. Julie Cortés lives, breathes, teaches, speaks, and coaches on all things creative self-employment. She’s run her own business for more than 25 years, is the founder and president of The Freelance Exchange of KC—a professional trade organization for advertising / marketing freelancers, and created a much-needed college-level course, Freelancing 101, for the KC Art Institute, where she’s taught as an adjunct professor since 2017. Awarded dozens of times over for her work, leadership, volunteerism and community involvement, she’s regularly sought out for media interviews, business coaching, and speaking engagements. Julie is loving life, living out her passion for helping creative freelancers succeed.
Julie Cortés will share her story of how she built a dream freelance career and how you, too, can do so as well.
Ksenia :
Welcome back to the Doodles to Dollars podcast. This is your host Fenya. Today's episode is going to be so, so good. All the episodes are great. There's so many more to come. But today is going to be great because we have someone who actually focuses on being a freelancer and what it's like to be self-employed as a creative. So today's episode features Julie Cortes. She's a copywriter by day, freelance rock star by night. Julie lives, breathes, teaches, speaks, and coaches on all things creative self-employment. She's run her own business for more than 25 years, is the founder and president of the Freelance Exchange of KC, a professional trade organization for advertising and marketing freelancers, and created a much-needed college-level course Freelancing 101 for the Casey Art Institute, where she's taught as an adjunct professor since 2017. Awarded dozens of times for her work, leadership, volunteerism, and community involvement. She's regularly sought out for media interviews, business coaching, and speaking engagement. Julia's loving life, living out her passion for helping creative freelancers succeed. If that does not give you everything you need to know to lock in for the next hour, I don't know what will. I'm so excited for this conversation. Like I said before, it's one thing, I think, to have conversations with other freelancers where we're talking about everyone's unique experience. But I think it's a completely other level to talk to someone who actually teaches you about freelancing and self-employment and being a soul opener. So highly recommend you lock in for the next hour and you listen with us. Let's jump in. Hi, I'm so excited to have you on here. To get started, tell us about who you are, what you do, all that good stuff.
Julie Cortes: Sure. Hi, so I am Julie Cortez, copywriter by day, freelance rock star by night. I live, breathe, teach, speak, and coach on all things freelancing and self-employment, in particular towards creatives. And I have run my own freelance copywriting business for more than 25 years. And throughout the course of that, I've had so many twists and turns in my journey that I am at a place now that I never ever dreamt, but I feel like this is absolutely everywhere I'm supposed to be. Coaching my fellow freelancers, leading a professional organization of freelancers, speaking to freelancers, teaching them in the classrooms, and the list goes on and on. That's who I am and I'm very excited to be here. Yay.
Ksenia : Oh, that's going to be such a good conversation. I already know because it's like such a perfect fit. So to touch on all the twists and turns that you've gone through, do you mind taking us on a journey of maybe 25 or some years ago when you first started and just like everywhere you've gone since?
Julie Cortes: Sure, absolutely. So like a lot of freelancers in the advertising and marketing world, I lost my job unexpectedly. And you know, it happens in our industry, though, of course, nobody warned me about that. And I was devastated. And I was young and didn't know what I was going to do next. And I was kind of at a crossroads. This was more than 25 years ago, right? And so it was a time where there was like this unspoken thing about young creative females not necessarily getting into the industry and having the opportunities that they deserved. And it came back to me later on that these old white male creative directors were looking at us young females and were like, well, why should we even hire you when all you're going to do is run off and get married and have babies? Like, why should we train you? And of course, you're like, well, I kind of wish I could make that decision for myself. And finally, I just threw my hands up in the air. And I'm like, you know what, if nobody's gonna hire me, I'm gonna go ahead, prove them what they're missing out on and go launch my own business. And that was 25 years ago, and more than 25 years ago, gosh, coming up on 26 now, and have had no regrets whatsoever.
Ksenia : I get that. I feel like it's brought up less, but I think that mindset of why train if you're just going to go and have a family. I've personally, I kind of just went from school to startup to just going straight into my thing and my business. But I've definitely heard of women having a harder time because depending on who you get interview you, they might be like, hey, are you going to have a family? It's like, I don't know. I'm here for a job. my life planning session here.
Julie Cortes: Right. And it's none of their business, quite honestly, like we should be able to make the decisions on how we want to steer our path moving forward, like, whether or not I wanted kids wasn't their business, you know, and then even so, if I if I plan on continuing working, you know, So it was an uphill battle for quite some time. But this was also at a time where there really wasn't any training on freelancing. And I had to teach myself everything there is to know. And even then, you never know it all, right? I'm continually learning. But thank goodness for the internet. At least that was out then. And I could Google things. I tell you, I sat down and I wrote a business plan and I wrote a marketing plan and off I went. And there's never been one time where I have regretted it, quite honestly.
Ksenia : That's awesome. That's really good because it is a journey. I just have seven years in my business, but even that is like, wow, okay. We've really gone through it. Yeah, no, that's great. I'm curious with that transition, what were you doing in the company in the job that you had? And like, did you pretty much start doing that as a freelancer? Or was there a shift in what you were doing?
Julie Cortes: Sure. So what I was doing for I was a copywriter, and a producer and had no idea what I was doing, like fresh out of school. And if you really want to know the story, it's kind of humorous. and sad all at the same time. But yeah, I was working for a small ad agency. I really hadn't done my homework on them before I got a job. I was just so excited. Yeah, I got a job at an ad agency, right? But apparently, little did I know this at the time, but they had a bad reputation. And I go in and yes, there are sweatshop and yes, there are egos there and some really, really, really unprofessional people, shall we say. And I was shocked. I was absolutely shocked. And then when it came time for me to lose my job, it was basically just a situation of conflicting personalities, so to speak. I was professional, they were not. And they showed me the door. Now, quite honestly, it was a blessing in disguise. But it ended up, like I said, I was devastated at first, but now it totally launched this career that I would have never dreamt. Yeah, not only just going from being just a copywriter to doing everything else that I am today, following my own natural path and talents and skills and creating a dream career. You know, I'm almost thankful to the little shop that was so mean to me. But here I am. Yeah.
Ksenia : I have a pretty similar story. That's like what happened with the startup. I was devastated, like I remember. And then I'm like, this is such a blessing in disguise because especially that startup, like it was days of like 7am to 10pm, like a lot of stress and like not coping with it in the best ways because it was also in like the music industry. So yeah, I remember at that time, the day I was like, no, I lost my job." And now I'm like, thank God. Thank God because I wouldn't be here. Kind of coming back to your journey, so like leaving and then starting your own thing. What was it like? I know you mentioned that like you would just Google things and figure it out as you went, but is there any moments that looking back that were either like really, really big learning lessons or kind of like pivot points where you're like, okay, I can't do this anymore? or I need a chip.
Julie Cortes: Yes. Always. Yeah, for sure. You know, I feel like I wasn't well prepared and I'll be the first one to admit that. And so I sought out a couple of mentors that I think really helped me. And that was fantastic. And then I think too that just kind of making those mistakes Looking back for me, it was helpful because now I can help others be proactive and reactive when it comes to those things. But gosh, yeah, I mean, when clients don't pay, or when they're being really difficult, you know, sometimes you just get to a point where you want to throw up your hands and be like, I'm out, you know, forget this, I'm gonna go do something else. And yeah, there's definitely been time. I'll tell you one time, gosh, one of my worst client horror stories, and I'm sure everybody has a few that they could add to the mix here. But there was a gal I was doing work for, she was located where I am, but her company whom she worked for was in LA. So they're, you know, halfway across the country. Been doing work with her as well as I brought in a freelance designer friend to do this work. And we're working for month after month after month, you know, things seem to be going well, got steady work coming in the door and they're paying steadily and then until all of a sudden they weren't, they like completely stopped paying. And here we are, it's like month three after their last payment. And finally, I put my foot down. I was like, listen, I'd love to continue working with you. However, until such time that we get caught up on payments, I'm going to have to stop. Now, this isn't the first time that I let her know that they were late or behind on their payments, right? So anyway, so we'd been hired by this gal, everything was fine until they stopped paying. And then I told her we're going to have to stop working, right until they get caught up on payments. And I kid you not, and this was through an email, so I had everything in writing. And I kid you not, she just took the phone and called me and ripped me a new one for the next 45 minutes, yelling at me screaming at me calling me every name in the book, because I would not continue working for her for free. And she's calling me immature. She's calling me unprofessional. And at some point, your mouth just drops and you're like, I don't understand what's happening here. It took me back to my teenage years and my own mother yelling at me. And I'm holding the phone way out and I can still hear her. And then as soon as she called me immature and unprofessional, I brought the phone back in because I'm a smart ass. And I was like, um, so excuse me, uh, you're yelling and screaming at me and calling me every name in the book. And I'm the one who's immature and unprofessional. And she goes, yes. Oh my. Okay. Carry on. And, and the only reason I let her go on and on and on was because I recognized what was happening. And also I was billing hourly. And so I'm like, I'm going to be billing for this. Cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching. And then at the end of the call, I'm going to fire her. So finally she calmed down and I brought the phone back in and she goes, well, what do we do? And I said, well, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to tell you what we're doing. It's like, because I'm the professional, I'm going to finish out this month's work and then we're going to call it a day. And I ended up firing her. But yes, that was one of my breaking points was like, do I really want to do this? Like people are abusive and they're mean. And for whatever reason, specifically to those who are self-employed, I'm like, nope. You know, at that point, I was like, Cortez, out. But I finally came back around and I was like, no, no, this is just going to add fuel to the fire. And it's going to help me, you know, better my systems. And then leading up to where I am today and coaching and teaching and speaking on all of the things, I can use that as a great example. of, you know, things that you can have in place by way of contracts, which I did ahead of time, and just different systems in place, you know, check-in points, what have you, to ensure that that doesn't happen. And then again, empowering others too. Don't let your clients take advantage of you. Don't let them treat you like that. Don't let them be verbally abusive. Like, nobody deserves that, right? And I think the more we collectively as a workforce stand up against that kind of injustice, you know, I think the better off we'll be.
Ksenia : Yeah, my mind is just flashing back because I had one of those moments. I had one of those clients that my gut was like, don't do it. And then for some reason, I was just like, oh, but you need help. I'll be nice. And I was out for months after that. I just did not work. And it affected my family too, because it was someone who was like, like, we knew my family's Russian. So it's like, oh, it's someone in the Russian community. And it was just like, okay, I don't work. Unfortunately, I won't work with Russian people anymore. Because there's that thing, even though that's like my nationality, that's where my family's from. But man, that moment, I was definitely had those moments of like, what is happening here? Like, this reaction does not match like what the issue is, because we could just calmly talk about it, but you're causing all these issues. And I also had a contract in place. So it's unfortunate that there are so many stories like this, like nightmare stories. I feel like partly it's It's just part of the journey. You need to learn how you want to deal with these people. Maybe because I don't have the corporate experience, but do people treat each other that way in corporate settings or is it just like a freelancer situation?
Julie Cortes: Yeah, you know, I think it could go both ways. That's an excellent point. But but I do find that that people do like to take advantage of freelancers either way, you know, and, and it's unfortunate, but but again, you know, I, one of my goals is to empower other people. And don't let them, you know, don't let your clients walk all over you. And, and to listen to your gut, you know, like you said, you felt from the beginning from the get go that your gut sense that something was wrong. And sometimes we get those red flags, and we get those signs in advance, but other times we don't. But again, like, let's, let's be empowered. So we don't take anything from these people. And let's be strong enough to Have the confidence to stand up and say, no, this is not right. This is not okay. And if you're not going to treat me like a well-respected vendor, and that you value my services and me as a person, as a professional, then I'm going to feel confident enough to walk away and say, no, I can fire you just as much as you can fire me. And I got to tell you, it's so empowering to be able to do that. And just remind yourself that There's plenty of work out there. You just have to find it. Right. But there is plenty of work out there with people who will treat you with respect and who do value you as a human and as a professional, we just have to put in the work to go find it.
Ksenia : Yeah, that's so true. And I know even from my experience, like firing clients just always seems like a Like, oh, no, I don't want to have this conversation. And I think thankfully, for the most part, people have just drifted away. So I've never had to have that like, we're done conversation. But it's so important to especially like standing your ground of like who you want to work with and who you don't. Yeah, if I knew back then who I am okay with, then I probably could have saved myself a lot of trouble. Absolutely.
Julie Cortes: You know, and I preach this, you know, teach this and, you know, tell everybody, you know, listen to your gut. And then I had a similar experience. I didn't, you know, walk the walk, talk the talk, you know, kind of thing. And I, I went against my better just judgment just last year, there was a guy who came knocking on my door, who was like, Hey, can you proofread my website? And, and just through our initial zoom meeting, like I already felt like something was up. And I was like, well, it's a small project should be quick and easy. Let me just get in and get out, you know, before things go astray. So again, fortunately had all the preventative measures in place, right? Got my deposit upfront, contract signed the whole shebang. And, and I sent over the work and he sends this scathing email and he's like, I could have paid an English student at a college to do this, you know, and he was just so rude. And he's like, where's the sales, the promotional copy? This is what I wanted. I was like, dude, you asked for editing and proofreading. You did not ask for a promotional copy. Like there's a huge difference. And I was like, if you go back and look at the estimate, if you look at the contract, like everything says proofreading. nothing says rewriting of any sort of nature. And anyway, you know, he's like, stop what you're doing. You know, I got to think about this. And, and of course, he's one of those guys who is like, you know, hey, I need to get this done right this minute. And again, another red flag. And I'm like, no, you know, you should have put time in here, you know, for us to work on this. Anyway, so again, he thought he was getting ready to fire me. And I turned the tables. I'm like, again, here's what we're gonna do. I'm going to keep my deposit and I'm going to walk away. But please, for the sake of all freelancers going forward, please keep in mind, you need to be very specific as to what it is that you're looking for. Do not talk down to them. Do not cast these insults. Allow for enough time. I'm trying to teach him, but I ended up firing him in the long run. But I should have listened to him.
Ksenia : I so get that, especially with the tasks that are so little that you're like, oh, I could just do this in like an hour. I could do this super quick. Like, why not? Easy, easy money for a lot, but it's like never easy with those people. It's not. It's never that way. Yeah. Looking back at your journey, are there any key moments that also stand out to you that I guess would be useful to know for people that are just starting out? Like what, I know this is your jam, like you teach this.
Julie Cortes: Sure. So are there any key moments that stand out like that were big shifts? Is this what you're asking? Make sure I understand. Yeah. So yes, I had been freelancing for about five years, and I was really involved with the local advertising community. And there's an organization, the American Advertising Federation or the Advertising Club, you know, there's different chapters in different cities throughout. And, uh, and I was really involved with them and I started looking around at them and at other organizations and like, you know, Hey, um, why is there nothing specific for freelancers? Why don't you have discounted rates? Why don't you have programming specifically for the self-employed? You know, and the list goes on and on. And, and so, I was, so I went to them and I was like, could we create a group within the advertising club, like a subgroup? They already had a couple other subgroups, you know, that caters to the self-employed. And, um, long story short, they turned me down without even really giving me an opportunity to pitch the idea. And, uh, so I went out on my own and I started the freelance exchange of Kansas city where I'm located here in the United States. And it has, it was a game changer. having a professional organization, having a community for freelancers, where we can go and have a safe space, where we can ask questions and find support and get mentored, and the list goes on and on. Filling these voids that I was seeing, right? The voids in continuing education, the void in community, the void even in respect for the self-employed, right? So I went and created my own thing, and that was a game changer. I did not see that coming, but I saw a void, I saw a need, and I went and I did something about it, right? And because of that, I feel like I've gotten so many opportunities throughout my journey that have launched me into teaching and speaking and coaching, you know, so many people wanted to interview me, you know, whether it's on podcasts or on the radio or TV, newspaper, what have you. And then I started getting opportunities to go speak in classrooms, to college classes, because again, nobody was teaching this in the classroom, how to run your own business. And, and again, it was like one of those light bulb moments, because a lot of my peers in the professional industry, a lot of my freelance peers were like, Julie, I love that you're teaching Freelancing 101 at the local school. Can I come sit in on your class? Well, Nope. There's no room for you to sit. Plus, you got to pay and enroll. And not many people want to go back to school at this stage in their life. And so I was like, Oh, Cortez, light bulb moment. Why don't you open up a coaching arm to your business and offer those same lessons and strategies that you are in the classroom? And it's just taken off. But again, it's something that I never saw coming. None of these things I ever saw. If you would have asked me even 10 years ago, hey, Julie, do you see yourself as an adjunct professor teaching a business class at an art school? I would have told you you were nuts. Me? No. But here I am and absolutely loving it. It's just one of those things when you see a need for something and you can figure out a way to find joy from it and make a paycheck from it. Why not? Go do it. I think that that's the key for me. Just follow your bliss, follow your instincts. And if you can make a difference in your industry some way, somehow, while also making a living at it, go do it. I feel like that's the biggest lesson from my journey. Like I said at the beginning, I'm absolutely nowhere where I thought I would be when I started out on this venture, but I am 110% everywhere where I'm supposed to be. And, and that brings me so much joy. And I want to impart that upon other people, because this is not the path that I set out on. But just being open to those possibilities, right? I think that's, that's been the biggest thing. And then finding out ways to monetize them has been super helpful too.
Ksenia : That's so good. I'm like, are there any freelance organizations near me? Because you're right, community, even just the community aspect is so important because especially being a solopreneur without a team, like solopreneur, freelancer, like it's just you from experience. I know it gets lonely and having people that understand, like my dad has his own business, but he's an electrical contractor. So that's a bit different. shifting a little bit to everything that you teach, but also maybe key points that you've noticed that really make a difference when people are starting out. So for the person that is maybe considering going into their own business, whether it's starting as a side hustle or really going full time, Is there anything that you've noticed that makes a huge difference, whether it's like in their happiness or in like longevity?
Julie Cortes: Yeah, you know, I would say three things and I'll expand upon them each as we go. So number one is mindset. Number two is having a contract. And I think number three is just treating your business like a business and not like a hobby. And that means things like having a business plan and a marketing plan. Mindset, I didn't learn this lesson until late in my career, but it makes a huge difference. If you wake up in the morning and you're like, Oh, I don't have any paid work to do. So I'm not going to do any work. I'm just going to lounge around or I'm going to go out and go shopping with my girlfriends or whatever the case may be. That is not a business owner's mindset. You've got to acquire a business owner's mindset over the years and or even if you can do it upfront, that would be super helpful as opposed to what I did. And I think part of it to get you in the right mindset is to establish office hours and ensure that you're either working on or in your business during those hours. Working in your business, of course, is doing the paid work that's coming in the door. But working on your business is all the other things that either need to get done or you want to get done. that you don't necessarily get paid for. So it could be self-promotion, it could be new business development, it could be continuing education, it could be working on bookkeeping or cleaning up your office, anything like that. So it's a mindset shift instead of, I don't have any work to do today. Yes, I always have work to do. There's always something to be done. And I'm going to go and take advantage of this free time that I've been given to make sure that I can get ahead and ensure that I'm prepared well for the future. Right. So mindset is number one. Number two is a contract. You know, so many freelancers start out and either don't have a contract, they don't understand they need a contract, or they think, oh, it's scary, big legal document. I get it. I totally understand that. But I can't tell you how many times it saved my rear end. And I feel like, again, if you are a business owner, if you are serious about your business, and you don't want to be stiffed by a potential client, you put a contract in place. And having an attorney in your back pocket is helpful, of course, as well. But I think it's also one of those things. Not only can it prevent you from getting stiffed or help you in the cases of potentially getting stuck. But it also helps show your clients or potential clients that you are a serious professional business owner. You're not one of these fly-by-night freelancers who are just in between jobs, but you're doing this as a serious career choice and that you mean business. right? And for the people who struggle with this component of it, I, you know, I try and tell them, flip the script in your head, you know, when you're presenting this to your client, it's nothing personal. It's just business, right? It's just business. And then the third part of that was treating your business like a business and not like a hobby. Man, is sitting down and writing the that business plan, that marketing plan, I think is going to elevate you much higher than any of your other competition, because they're not doing those things. Again, using the business owner's mindset and taking this all seriously. I used to say, this is what separates the men from the boys. But now it's like, this is what separates the serious freelance business owners from the fly-by-night freelancers. So take that all with a grain of salt. But those are, I think, the three biggest components to me to any freelancer success.
Ksenia : When we're kind of talking about the business plan and the marketing plan side of things, for people that have no idea what that looks like, is there anything that you recommend for like just starting out like key questions to answer? Because I know that there's business plans that are massive and huge and very in-depth, but for the person that's starting out like what actually is important to answer?
Julie Cortes: Sure. And you're right. You can Google. There's plenty of templates out there. For me, there's eight main sections. It essentially answers the who, what, when, where, why of your business and who you are today and where you want to go. It's like your plan for your business today, tomorrow, 5 years from now, 10 years from now. And it's something, of course, that you can put together now and then readjust later on. It takes a good hard look at you and who you are as a business owner, as well as your target audience. You know, there's a lot of exercises in there by way of demographics and psychographics, so you can fully understand your target audience as well as your competition. too, and how to stand out amongst that. Same goes for the marketing plan. It's not just a matter of throwing together a brand and promoting yourself all willy-nilly, maybe just on social media. It's looking at the whole picture. How can you differentiate yourself from your competition and promote yourself in that light? Highlighting what we call a USP, that's fancy marketing speak. It stands for your unique selling proposition, or you might hear it as unique selling point. But again, fancy marketing speak for your differentiator. What makes you different, unique from your competition? Why should the potential client hire you over them? And then you highlight that. everything that you do from your brand to your website to your promotions, like all of these exercises and then planning out, okay, what am I going to do for the year? Is it just social media or am I also going to add in a website and email campaigns? Am I going to do any sort of postcards or networking or volunteering or public relations? The list goes on and on, right? So it's adding all of those things, planning as you might, as well in advance as you can for those things, and also budgeting for them. Not everything's free. Not everything's inexpensive, unfortunately. You might need help with some of this stuff. I'm not a designer and I know better than to go and do my own design work. So, you know, how do you budget for that? Or can you trade out with a friend? And figuring all of that out in advance, how are you going to pay for it? And how you're going to recoup that money, you know, in the long run. So, yeah, I think those are two essential documents that if you don't have going, It's time to get started.
Ksenia : Yeah, that's so good. Even just hearing you talk about it, I'm like, if I had that when I started out, life would be so much easier. Yeah, mental note for myself to go check out my documents and see if anything needs to shift. transitioning a bit into the solopreneurs that are a bit more freelancers that are into the business a bit more in like that one to two year range where things have been going well but now it's either time to scale or wherever they are at. Curious from especially from your experience with teaching are there any pitfalls that you've noticed like a pattern in where okay at this time they're usually facing these issues And is there anything that you can share that might like help them kind of skip that bump?
Julie Cortes: Well, sure. I feel like, you know, a lot of people get stagnant, you know, and they're like, Okay, I've hit this level, but I'm struggling to go to the next level. And how do I do that? And so I feel like that's pretty common. And You know, quite honestly, what I see often is that people get in their own way, right, they get in their own head, they get in their own way, they don't want to promote themselves, you know, and I get it, you know, most creatives for the most part are introverts, you know, I'm one of the few who's not. But they're introverts. But even as a full-blown extrovert, I had trouble promoting myself at first. It is really hard to do. And not only that, because you got to put yourself out there and that's scary. What will people think? You got to get over that hump. But also just the sheer fact of doing it. Julie, I don't have time in my day to add self-promotion to the mix. And I'll tell you a key point that somebody told me a few years back, which has made a huge difference in my business, is to set aside time every single day to work on your marketing. All right, I started with an hour a day. Now, is that social media? Is that updating my website? Is that putting out an email newsletter? It varies, but an hour a day. And again, I have people telling me, Julie, I don't have time for that. I have too much on my plate. Okay, well, then it's time to re-sort your time management here or your schedule. Do you need to outsource? If you're only working, let's say 10 to 5, maybe you need to extend those hours to 9 to 5, whatever the case may be. You've got to make time for marketing. And I feel like that's a great example of people getting in their own way. And again, getting in their own heads. Well, I don't want to do that. I don't want to be that sleazy person on LinkedIn or whatever. you don't have to be, you know, there are still other ways you can provide value and interest and, and just start creating relationships. Because that's the end all be all goal. You know, people want to work with those whom they know, like and trust, and you want to become that person. So you're you're top of mind when whenever somebody says, Oh, I need a copywriter or designer or whatever it is, oh, I know exactly who does that. Right? You don't have to be sleazy about it. Just provide value.
Ksenia : Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting because I see that I've started to focus more on my marketing because I'm definitely one of those introvert people and I've been so lucky that my business has been referral based this whole time so I haven't had to but now with this podcast and just with networking, I'm like, okay, I'm putting myself out there and I'm like, wow, okay, it's really, it is really important to just be in those spaces and kind of just like show up because opportunity can happen. And you never know, right? And I'm especially seeing that with clients that haven't done that. And they're now they're like, they have put money into different avenues. And now they're backtracking to be like, no, I just need to be visible. That's, that's what needs to happen. So with that, do you think that marketing is really that key point? Like if they were to focus on one thing, whether they outsource or they have to make time for it, it's marketing above other areas or are there a few others that are important?
Julie Cortes: I think marketing definitely is at the top of that list. I'd say also others would include like just systems, you know, and figuring out other ways on how to elevate your brand. Like for example, I have one coaching client who had put together this amazing like onboarding welcome packet. You know, it's like these little things that we don't necessarily think about, because again, nobody teaches us this in school, right? But little things that can help you stand out. Well, what's in the welcome packet? Well, it's got an intro to who the freelancer is. It's got, okay, here's my office hours, and here's my contact info. You know, here's a bio and a headshot of me. And then also, here's my preferred method of communication. you know, here's what to expect, you know, we're going to go through this process of estimate and contract and deposit, and then we're going to get started. And I'm going to put together a creative brief. And then I'm going to go brainstorm, and I'm going to present a concept. And you know, I'm just kind of walking through the schedule, maybe even, you know, here's, here's where we're pinpointing check-ins with one another. Here's when the deadline is. The list goes on and on. But it was just absolutely brilliant, in my opinion, to start adding these little pieces that you didn't necessarily have before, but just one more thing to elevate you to the next level. So you can continue to attract the clients that you want and earn the money that you deserve and get paid what you're worth. I think that's definitely another area is just little systems and ways to wow or to dazzle your clients, if you will, to keep them coming back for more. And if they don't have the work for you, then to ensure that they'll probably refer you to other people.
Ksenia : Yeah. That's so interesting because that like elevating experience has actually come up recently. So more so with a client, like a client that I'll be partnering with where she comes at it from a very like event focus. It's an event company, but she wants to kind of bring that like luxury hotel concierge feeling to it. And that even just talking to her got me thinking of like, okay, how do I bring that into my business? Because Even though I've been in business for seven years, I've recently like focused my brand. I redid my website from just like, I'm a freelancer. I do everything to now I'm like, no, this is who I am and what I'm doing. And it's so interesting to think about that onboarding, that like handholding, if you will, of how to make that experience better, because there's something about that conversation with her that made me really think of like, why don't I look at other industries? Like, why don't I look at like, the hospitality industry and how they take care of people and see if I can pull anything in from there because it is kind of up to me, right? With freelancers, we can decide how we want to treat people and that's such an interesting point. That came up recently, so I'm like, hmm.
Julie Cortes: Well, yeah, you know, and again, I think we just inherently, you know, whether we start out doing the freelance work, or we come from the corporate side, or agency side, like we just don't think about these little things, you know, even like, you know, client holiday gifts, or sending thank you cards, or, or whatever, you know, the case may be like little things to just kind of elevate your service level, because it's not always about the work, it's about the relationship to and just, if you can do that one more, one little step, you know, and just elevate yourself, I think it's really going to carry you much further than if you didn't.
Ksenia : Mm hmm. Yeah, my brain is like just going crazy with ideas of how to elevate the service now.
Julie Cortes: Good. Hopefully your listeners are getting that same feel too.
Ksenia : So well, it's it's so true what you say about relationships, because really, that that's what makes it especially. I mean, like I said, I made it to seven years referral base, which is I'm so grateful for that. I'm like very grateful for the people that helped me get there. And even now, even as I've shifted, there's one specific person that I love her so much. Like she's a photographer, and she is amazing herself, but she always sends me great people and That could only happen because of relationships, right? I know I've definitely in the past kind of gotten into my little like hermit shell of being like, no, I just need to do the work. It'll be fine. The work will speak for itself. But relationships are so key. And with that point, I'm curious for people that are just Actually, for anyone, wherever they are in their solopreneur or freelancer journey, are there any tips that you have around finding those people or building those relationships? I know there's definitely people that I've met networking where it's like, okay, I met you. Great. Okay, hi, bye. How do you actually get those relationships and find those people that can make a difference?
Julie Cortes: Sure. So I think, you know, first, you've got to be intentional about where you're going to network, right? And finding the right people. So if you have a specific niche that you want to work in, or certain people that you want to work with, you know, be intentional with your networking, go where they are, you know, join the organizations that they're part of. Is it the local chamber? Is it the advertising club? Whatever, you know, wherever they might be, and go network with them, but do your research ahead of time. I mean, don't stalk them. But see what you can figure out about them ahead of time. If networking scares you, take a networking buddy with you. There's no harm, no foul in that. But to your point, yeah, what do you do after you meet them and you have a great conversation? Maybe you exchange cards. What are the next steps? So I always recommend, number one, I think the most natural next step is to connect on LinkedIn. I think it's harmless. I don't think it's an imposition. But be sure to include a connection note with your request and remind them when and where you met. Maybe it was something you talked about. Hey, I promised I'd send you that article, whatever it was, and then do it and then send it off. Okay, so I feel like that's your most natural next step. Some people will then include these people into a CRM, right? A customer relationship management system. You can certainly do that. You can be old school, put it in an Excel file. Maybe you take the card and put it in some sort of organizer, right? The old Rolodex kind of concept. But you've got to, you've got to keep that relationship going, right? So maybe you ask them, you know, can I add you to my email list? Or Hey, we talked about this. I'd really like to follow up on that conversation. Can I buy you a cup of coffee? And then you meet with them. And now you're now you're taking that more into relationship marketing. Right. And then when you meet with them again, like just keep curating that that relationship, it doesn't necessarily have to be sell, sell, sell all the time. Hey, I need copywriting. Do you have any work for me? You know, it could just be like, hey, tell me about your business. And what are your challenges? And let me see how I can help you. And if I can't help you, maybe I can refer somebody who can. You always want to be the problem solver. And I think people really appreciate that. And gosh, I don't know about you, but I get inundated with sales messages on LinkedIn every single day. Yeah. And so I think with those LinkedIn sales messages, you know, that's not the way to do it. I don't think cold calls, I don't think cold sales work. Maybe they do for some people, but I find them annoying. And I don't want to be that person doing that. And I don't recommend that other people do that either. I think the more natural you can be, and the more organic you can build these relationships, the better off you'll be.
Ksenia : I so agree, especially like being in the web design space. I get so many emails from other developers or like SEO and I'm just like to you. At least do your research. At least look at my website because they mentioned, oh, your website needs this. I'm like, did you read it? Basic step right there would have helped you so much. But yeah, I'm curious to actually see if it's profitable for them. Does this actually work for them? Are there people that actually say yes to this? Because so far, no one I know says yes to them.
Julie Cortes: Yeah, well, exactly. I love to, you know, not only do I get the copywriters coming my way, but the ones who are like, And specifically, they're like, well, I write for coaches. And I'm like, did you look at my profile? Because I am also a copywriter. I can do exactly what you're saying. So you're right. I don't see it working. Maybe it works. Maybe one out of every 300, maybe they land. I don't know. I just think it's sleazy. And I don't want to be that person. It feels so icky to me. So, like I said, the more natural approach, I think, is better. And I feel like the more connections that you have, the better off you'll be. And I see this all the time. Unfortunately, people who have that steady full-time job and don't think that they need to grow their network are really in an unfortunate situation if and when they do lose their job. Whether they leave by choice or by default, you've got to have an established network. The experts say that it takes six months to build a good network. And so you want to have that in place at all times. So whether you're networking online or in person, you want to have connections and have people who know, like, and trust you who can either give you work or refer work to you. Gosh, always be working on your network. And even if you are the shy type or the introverted type, you know, there's plenty of things you can do. I do think there's something to be said for in-person, face-to-face networking, but you don't have to go at it like an extrovert would. Like, I would say if I'm going to a networking event, I'm going to make myself a goal to make five quality connections. But if you're an introvert, don't put that kind of pressure on yourself. You know, only go in with like three, you know, say you only have to meet three. Let's say the event is three hours long, maybe it's a happy hour or something. happy hours, technically. But you don't have to stay the whole time, you know, like, don't put that pressure on yourself. So there are ways to get around it as an introvert. And of course, there are things you can do online to, you know, leaving comments on people's LinkedIn posts, you know, or on the articles that people write, you know, you can come in as a as a subject matter expert. You know, there are things that you can do to get around that. But I still think there's some power in the face to face networking, too.
Ksenia : Yeah, that's so important to know. Because when I first started out my career, or my business, I had a coach back then and he's like, Okay, we have a goal, you're going to go talk to five people at this networking event. And being someone who has been the shy kid my whole life, that was like, Oh my god, okay. And then I'd like, talk to him after and be like, I talked to five people. And it was So cringe, but I did it. But you did it. It's interesting, at least I can see this from now from where I started, I definitely did more in person. And then now going back to it, it's mostly all online. And I find that online is a lot easier for me that I went to like an in person event a couple months ago, and it was just like, there's way too many people here. Also, in my mind, I don't think I prepared myself mentally for how many people would be there, because I thought I'd be intimate, but there was like 400. Oh my gosh. In a small space. And yeah, it was a lot, especially for me. For me, there was the wind of like, no, I just talked to one really well-known designer where I live and now we live close to each other. So we'll hopefully get coffee and kind of continue that relationship. But I think the not having expectations is really important because when I first started out, it was nice because it really forced me out of my shell. But now it's like, oh, no, like it's OK if you want to leave, like you don't have to force yourself to be there this whole time. And just like, yeah, yeah.
Julie Cortes: Yeah, you just don't. And if you need to go recharge your batteries at any point, by all means, go do that. Excuse yourself, go to the bathroom, go to your car, go sit in the lobby, go get a new drink. I don't know. Whatever you need to do, I think we need to take that kind of pressure off one another and understand it. If you go to networking events, I think that's great. I think it's a great place to start. But curating those those relationships online, I think is even more helpful, you know, once you've met, again, once you've met them in person, it's a little easier to interact with people online. But, but even more so, I mean, you can you can establish community anywhere, anytime, you know, and get connections that way and get word get referrals. So the opportunities are kind of endless.
Ksenia : Mm hmm. Yeah, so much good stuff. To wrap up our episode, is there anything that from your experience, what both in your business and as you're teaching, is there anything else that you think is really important for people to know as they're kind of diving in or even at any stage, really?
Julie Cortes: Sure. I think I would just reiterate, to be open to different opportunities. I think that's super important because it may lead you down paths that you would have never expected, but you find a lot of joy in. When I was in school, the big dream was to go to Chicago and work at the big ad agencies and work on the Super Bowl commercials. And obviously, that didn't pan out. I wanted to stay in my own hometown and be by family. And then, of course, losing my job was unexpected as well. But I look at people who are doing that, and I compare it to my life now. And I feel like, like I said before, I'm absolutely everywhere I'm supposed to be and doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. So yeah, just be open to opportunities. And of course, absolutely go after your dreams. But if things don't work out, you know, make lemonade out of lemons. I mean, you're going to be fine, you know, you're going to find your way and it's going to work out. Just pursue your passions, find your joy, and figure out ways to monetize them.
Ksenia : That is so true. Even as I think back to school, I went to school in Halifax, and then I did my last year in Philadelphia. And as a designer, the dream, I think, for everyone is like, work in New York, get a job there. And I remember going after that really hard, especially because for me, it would be like a visa situation. And I'm looking back, I'm like, I'm very happy that I am where I am. I'm also near family and there's just the four of us, so we're super close and that's important for me. And also just knowing I'm somebody that I adapt very well to my environment. Like with the startup, I adapted to that insane work culture and knowing what New York is like, that could have easily been a very downward spiral into just overworking because I already work too much. It's so interesting to kind of look and think, oh, this is what I thought my life would be, but now I'm doing this whole other thing. And I think the key thing that I've noticed, at least for me, is that your path is exactly what it needs to be, especially looking at like comparison online. I know I've definitely fallen into the trap of Oh, no, this designer is doing this, this and this, or this person has this luxurious lifestyle. But then it's like, well, do you actually want that? Or is it just what you feel like you need to want? That's also been something that's come up for me lately that fits perfectly into this conversation. To wrap things up, let us know where people can find you. I'm sure, first of all, highly recommend to anyone listening to go check you out and then get whatever freelance support they need. But yeah, feel free to share any resources of where to find you.
Julie Cortes: Sure. So people can learn more about me at my website, which is JulieCortez.com. That's Cortez with an S at the end, as in Sam, just to make things fun and unique. And then from there, you can get on my mailing list. You can come join my Facebook group called Freelance Rockstars. We're a fun little community and that is open to anybody and everybody around the world. So come join us virtually in the Freelance Rockstars group on Facebook. Find me on my website, JulieCortez.com. And from there too, you can download, I have a freebie download. It's seven tips to rock your solo business or your freelance business. And you can download that for free. I think it's like 10 pages long and you can get all the best tips and tricks that I've curated together from the last 25 years of doing this on my own.
Ksenia : Yeah. Highly recommend. Everyone listening, please go download this. I will go download it because I'm sure there's some more goodness in there. Yeah. Thank you so much. I'm very excited about our conversation and I'm sure it's going to help a lot of people. It's helped me. So now I have some things to think about. So thank you.
Julie Cortes: Good. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me on. This has been a blast.
Ksenia : Thank you for joining us for today's episode. I'm very excited for this podcast and I'd love to hear any feedback, what you thought about it. Please let me know as I want to make this a very useful resource for you. We have some amazing interviews coming up as well as some solo episodes, so keep an eye out for those. Subscribe if you want to be notified when those come out. and have them automatically go into your podcast player of choice. All the links mentioned will be in the show notes and also on the podcast page on my site. And lastly, if you'd like to be a guest on the show or have a topic you'd like me to cover, please reach out to me at podcast at Xenia.co. And that concludes our episode. I hope you enjoyed it. Again, please give me feedback. I want to make this really awesome for you, and I hope you have a great day. Thanks for listening.
