Do you struggle to figure out which of your many passions to focus on as a business? If you have more than one focus, this episode is for you! Today I chat with one of my IRL biz friends - Dina Lu all about her entrepreneurial journey - the highs, the lows and the lessons.
Dina Lu (she/her) is a Chinese-Canadian entrepreneur, YouTube creator, calligrapher, and Etsy shop owner from Vancouver, BC, Canada. In 2018, she started her first side business selling greeting cards and teaching calligraphy workshops. A year later, she quit her 9-5 government office job to see if she could make it as a creative business owner. Since then, she has never looked back!
In 2020, she started her YouTube channel. After 2 long years of seeing slow growth, her 99th video "My first month on Etsy results" was the first of several videos that rocketed her channel from 5,000 subscribers to 50,000 subscribers in one year. Now with over 130+ long-form videos, her channel inspires other people to pursue their dreams through topics related to business, side hustles, her journey as a business owner, and personal development.
She is known for being real, relatable, encouraging and authentic in sharing her advice, stories and experiences.
You won't want to miss this one!
Swell AI Transcript: Dina Lu_final.wav
Ksenia:
Ksenia.
Ksenia: Hi, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you on here to get started. Tell us who you are, what you do, all that good stuff.
Dina Lu: Yeah, thanks for having me and good to catch up. We haven't talked for so long. So my name is Dina Lu. I've been a full-time entrepreneur for almost five years, which is kind of hard to believe. I do a couple of things, so I don't just do like one thing. Right now, the main thing I'm working on is my YouTube channel, which I've had for three years. I also have an Etsy shop selling digital products, Canva templates, and I'm also a calligrapher. And this year in 2024, I am thinking of doing some other things as well. So I'm the kind of entrepreneur that likes to experiment with different things and have a bunch of things going on.
Ksenia: Yeah, that's so exciting to hear because I remember like we met through calligraphy a long time ago when I was putting on a workshop for teenage girls.
Dina Lu: Yeah, maybe like seven, six or seven years ago.
Ksenia: Yeah, that's crazy to me. And then I obviously I know that like to me it's kind of crazy to hear that your youtube channel has been around for three years because i remember when you were like talking about just starting and now it's like three years later like wow time really does fly yeah yeah how is i mean i know obviously from like kind of the sidelines maybe like distant sidelines just seeing all the changes that have happened in your business yeah i'm just really curious like what has the journey been like for you i know you had like a nine to five and then that transition, do you mind sharing the journey? Yeah, yeah, of course.
Dina Lu: So I was in a 9-5, it was like a government office kind of job, and I had to go downtown every day. Oh, by the way, Ksenia and me, we're in the same city, we're both in Vancouver. I knew that I always wanted to have something of my own, and I just hated asking my boss, like, can I go on vacation, and then getting approval for those kinds of things, and I hated wearing business casual clothing. So I was like, okay, let me start something of my own and let me see if I can eventually turn this into my full-time thing. So when I was working in my nine-to-five job, this was 2017 to 2019, I started just learning calligraphy. I just, I love, I just, one day I stumbled on it on Pinterest and I thought, oh, it's so pretty. So I was like, okay, let me, let me just like learn some calligraphy and see if I can maybe sell cards or something. So I did that. After one year of working on the calligraphy business on the side, I quit my job and I just taught calligraphy workshops full time. So that was in 2019. And six months later, COVID happened. So that was like a really big struggle because I had to cancel all my physical in-person calligraphy workshops. But actually it was okay because at the time I was thinking of doing more online things with my business because I've always wanted to travel and like be a digital nomad and it's really hard to do that when you have a calligraphy business that's in person. So I was already thinking of coaching calligraphers and offering coaching services to calligraphers and artists. So in 2020, when COVID happened, I thought, okay, this really sucks that I can't make money from my workshops anymore. But okay, let me really focus on this coaching thing. And It was really, really, really difficult. I had a lot of self-doubt, imposter syndrome, all of that stuff. It was so hard to market the whole thing and sell it. But in the end, I would say I was successful with the coaching services that I offered. And in two years, so 2020 to 2022, I've coached over 50 calligraphers all over the world, which is really cool. And I've helped people start their businesses. And that was it was really difficult, but I was pretty happy that I could make money online finally. But I knew that this wasn't the thing I wanted to do forever. So in 2022, I kind of had like business crisis. I was like, oh, I don't I don't think I want to do the coaching anymore. And at that point, I had the YouTube channel for about a year and a half. It wasn't big or anything. I think I think I had maybe a thousand. subscribers and I just got monetized and it was growing really really slowly and I thought back to when I was in university and I've had so many blogs throughout my life just they were never monetized but I just love blogging and sharing about my experiences. So I thought if I could do anything what would I do? So this was during the crisis and I thought oh I actually think I want to become a content creator. And I loved blogging in the past, but since now I have this YouTube channel, I think I want to actually use my YouTube to just be my platform where I can share everything that I learn with everybody. So that's when in 2022, I decided, OK, I'm going to quit the coaching. I'm just going to focus on YouTube. And let's see how it goes. So once I decided to stop doing the coaching, I basically was telling myself, OK, I'm not going to make money anymore. And so that's when I did a whole bunch of random side gigs like pet sitting and delivering for Uber Eats. And that period of time was one of the most difficult times in my business because I just felt like so bad about myself. And I was working really hard on the YouTube. It wasn't really growing. I was also kind of in like the middle of a breakup from a long-term relationship. So 2022, like summer until the end of 22 was like really, really difficult. I felt like I was just, it was just, everything was so hard, but I really believe that content creation is what I'm meant to do. So I just worked really hard. And another one of the random side gigs I did was start an Etsy shop. And it was so interesting because I started the Etsy shop and then I continued to make my YouTube videos and I made this one YouTube video called my first month on Etsy and I didn't think it would do well because like none of my videos did well and I thought in the past like oh this video is definitely gonna blow up and nothing ever like blew up or anything. So I just like casually posted that video saying, hey, I started an Etsy shop. This is my first month results. I made 10 sales. It's kind of just whatever. And at the end of 2022 in December, that video actually started to really pick up and it started getting a lot of views. And at that time, I had about 4000 subscribers. And because of that video, in about a month, I grew to 10,000 subscribers. So it basically like blew up the channel. And yeah, the whole channel just started to do really good. So yeah, that was like the probably like the most exciting time in my business in the last five years when I was like, Oh my god, it's like finally starting to work. And then because I've always wanted to travel and work, I bought a one way ticket to Southeast Asia. So in 2023, last year, in February, I went to Vietnam. And long story short, and we can talk about this later, but I spent seven months in Asia. And then I came back in September. And now I'm, I've been in Vancouver. And it's been great.
Ksenia: Okay, cool. Well, it's, it's so crazy to see, like all the progress, because I just I keep thinking back to that conversation in the Wolfpack, which for whoever's listening, it's the group program that we did together like a bajillion years ago.
Dina Lu: I think it was 2021 maybe. Yeah. When I was doing the coaching still.
Ksenia: Yeah. And I just remember you sharing your YouTube channel and us like all going to check it out. And the goal was monetization and like to remember that and then just to see where you are now is like, it's nuts.
Dina Lu: so congratulations thank you oh my god i can't yeah i can't believe it either and i i feel like at the beginning of 2023 i felt like wow my career is like finally starting it's like not hard anymore it's like everything's starting to work that's awesome i'm so happy for you
Ksenia: Thank you. I'm thinking, where do we go back to? Because there's so much good stuff in there. OK, you briefly touched on this, but I'm curious just to get the full background story, what did you go to school for?
Dina Lu: So I went to, I was in business school at UBC. I got a Bachelor's of Commerce in finance, which I sucked at. I was so bad at Excel and all those things. But yeah, I have a finance degree. OK.
Ksenia: What job did you have at the government job? What was the role?
Dina Lu: It was in international trade. It was at the British consulate in Vancouver. I worked for the UK's international trade department. It was actually a really, really good job. It was very 9-5. I liked my co-workers a lot. They sent me traveling sometimes to different conferences and stuff like that. And I really enjoyed the job, I just thought, like, I can't see myself doing this forever.
Ksenia: Yeah. I think that's good to know, because I think sometimes when, I mean, I haven't, like, I've had maybe one full-time job, like, post-university, and that's a very different experience. It was a startup. Interviewing people, it's always interesting to see, like, the people that go from a nine-to-five to doing their own thing, that most people are like, oh, I hated my job, I needed to leave, like, I needed a escape. It's honestly kind of nice to hear, like, no, I actually really like my job. I just didn't want to do it forever.
Dina Lu: Yeah, I really liked it. Yeah. It was a great job. I only had one job too out of university and it was that one job. One thing I could point out just from sharing like what happened in the last five years, a lot of people who want to start a business, I think they want to be successful in like six months or a year and they have like this really short timeline and they put so much pressure on themselves to like be successful really fast. But for me, it took like, so after I quit my job in 2019, it took like three to four years for me to finally feel like, oh my God, like everything's working. But then also there was like COVID. So I guess maybe on average, it wouldn't take that long, but because of COVID, like it, it just like dragged out the whole thing. But it, I feel like, yeah, it took just so long and it was so hard the entire time until that one video started to pick up.
Ksenia: That is yeah, thanks. Thank you for bringing that up. Because that is definitely want to dive into because you're so right. Like I think everywhere online, especially with I mean, if you go down the whole like digital marketing affiliate route, like it's like I made like 50k in two months. Like, okay. Did you really? And yeah, this whole like fast success, like easy fix thing has is always around. I feel like it's always been around. But it's I think that's really important because even though I've been in business for seven years, which is crazy, I still have moments where I'm like, oh, I want to change this one thing. Okay, it's going to be successful overnight. And it's like, no, it's not. Calm down. It'll take longer. So looking back, what do you think really helped you stick it out for that long?
Dina Lu: I think I just really knew that I didn't want to have a job. I feel like when I'm in a job, I'm just stuck because I feel like they control my schedule to ask to go on vacation. I can't do whatever I want. I can't wear whatever I want. But also, this was pre-COVID, so I think like jobs are a lot better, they're a lot more flexible now where like you can work from home or there's like hybrid working models but at the time I thought like I think the only way for me to like do my own thing is to start start a business and that's like the only way I can work and travel. I have to have my own thing and I think inside my heart I just knew that Like I have to make it work no matter what because I don't want to go back to a job. But I will say I think in the future I'm not against getting a job if I can be flexible and if it's fun and I feel like you know maybe I just want to change things up. So I'm not against like getting a job again but I just don't want to feel stuck and like controlled. my job and my my boss like nobody was like controlling me but i think it was just like i want to do my own thing and have a lot of flexibility and freedom yeah yeah so i think that's what kept me going yeah i know what you mean because sometimes i have like especially in the in the dips of entrepreneurship when things are not working like i've definitely had those moments where i'm like okay
Ksenia: Are we still going to do this? Do I still want to do this? And then it's just like, nope, there's no other option. At least for me, it's like, this is it. Figure it out. Yeah. Kind of touching on that, when you look back at the past, all your years of entrepreneurship and the different things that you've done, but also even looking at the job you had or even in schooling, are there things that you can see looking back now? that really helped you get to where you are, whether it's like something you learned at your job or just like ways of being that you've picked up throughout the years. Yeah.
Dina Lu: I think, well, I mentioned that I went to business school and people always ask me, oh, like, do you need to have like past business experience or go to business school to have a successful business? And I think business school gave me a little bit of the foundation. Like I just, I knew how the business world worked, but it didn't really help. Like no one told me. how to register a business stuff like that how to do your own bookkeeping but like because I took accounting courses I kind of understood you know like the foundations of okay there's your expenses and there's like you know your profit blah blah blah so business school helped a bit but I think for people who want to start business you totally don't have to go to business school and there are so many like resources online right and books and YouTube videos where you can learn how to do business and of course you can get like mentors. I would say the thing that probably helped me the most is I've always been really good at learning things like I'm a really fast learner and I think I'm just good at technology in general or just like if I have it if I'm trying out a new software like I'm just pretty fast at learning it and learning like a Figuring out a process that works for me so I can like do things efficiently yeah, and I think this is not like a hard skill, but it's like the I guess the the desire or the determination to Really want to make it successful and I think a part of that was I really wanted to travel and work and I just like envisioned Like my future self like oh like I really want to do this like I have to do this or else I like and I have to try or else I'm going to regret it if I don't try. But also, I think, because I know we were talking about, did I enjoy my job? Would I get a job in the future? When I was not making money in 2022, so after I quit the coaching and when I was just focusing on YouTube, I did do some part-time stuff. like, I actually got a part-time job in TikTok videos for a company. So I did, like, get a job, and then I also did, like, the Uber Eats, and I did some pet sitting. So I think when, for people who, you know, are going through, like, a dip, or maybe they're going through a period where they're not making money, or maybe, I don't know, maybe something personal has happened, and you can't focus on the business, it's totally okay to look for some, like, side gigs, or get a part-time job, just so you can get through that point.
Ksenia: I think just hearing, obviously, I know some of it, but just hearing the overall story is like, you're very resilient. It seems like, at least from my perspective, whenever there was a dip or whenever you were shifting, one, you weren't scared. Maybe you were internally, but you weren't stuck. If that switch from coaching to being a content creator, obviously, coaching was working. And you were helping all these people. So you easily could have been like, Okay, I guess this is it forever. But even when like things, maybe on paper looks really, really good, like with the coaching, I'm sure there's things that obviously you notice that made you be like, I don't want to do this anymore. Even if that is like good on paper, and but you wanted something else, the fact that you can make that decision, I think is really important. Because I think a lot of people do get stuck in Oh, but this is working. Like, do I really want to quit it and just go into the unknown? So at least like looking back with like, good job, Tina. This is like, yeah, I think that's really admirable that you like, at least from my perspective, you're not you're you don't get stuck in making that shift, or that decision to like change your business or go after something new. And then also to figure out, okay, what do I need to do to make it happen? Because I know, at least from my experience, of running a business, especially when there's dips. I've also been like, Oh, do I just like go find a job or go get something part time. But for whatever reason, I'd be like, No, I need to like double down on the business and do whatever I need to do. But I think sometimes it is important that it's like, your business kind of coming back to that easy success, like quick success, your business might not make money right away. You're like, if I was to go back, I'd probably rewrite my story, I'd probably have a full-time job as I was starting up my business because it would take a lot of weight off of the business to be successful right away.
Dina Lu: Yeah, well I guess to add to that, I think I've pivoted a lot in the last five years. I went from the calligraphy teaching workshops, then to coaching, and then during that time I started the YouTube and then I was like, okay, I'll start an Etsy shop now. So I think for a lot of people who are trying to decide what kind of business to start at the very beginning, I think you don't have to be so like, oh, I'm going to be doing this for like 5 to 10 years. You can just start with whatever you know or like a skill that you have or whatever you think is easy and just get started and then maybe a year later, like you can always pivot and everything you learned in the first year of doing business like so many skills are transferable like marketing skills stuff like that so I like I feel like now I am doing what I love which is content creation but I feel like I'm still gonna like make some pivots or try new things because it's fun and I don't want people to be scared of pivoting. Because in the long run, you don't want to… I mean, the point of you, for a lot of people, the point of starting a business is to not be stuck in a job, right? But then if you start your business and then you don't enjoy what you're doing and then you're scared of pivoting, then you're kind of still stuck.
Ksenia: Yeah, I was going to mention that because with your goal of freedom, it's very clear that there's a lot of freedom in your business, whatever it is, right? Like whatever you choose to do, whether it's the calligraphy or the coaching or the Etsy or whatever, I think it's, it's honestly like really admirable to see that, like, at least from my perspective, like you have a lot of freedom in it and you give yourself the freedom to explore whatever you want to explore. If I need to pivot my business, I'll do this. If I want to add this on, I'll add it on. But you're right, like it is very easy to kind of like leave a nine to five and then create a nine to five for yourself, except it's more like 24 seven, but like to create that structure for yourself. So yeah, not to say that nine to fives are bad, but just like, if that's what you're trying to leave and you create it for yourself, then you kind of just did the same thing.
Dina Lu: I know. Yeah. And it's probably worse because then you're not working nine to five. You're working like nine to nine, 24 seven. and it's more stressful.
Ksenia: Something that, okay, so I want to pivot to your YouTube and how that's been going because the videos that you mentioned, the one that kind of took off, I've been watching all of your Etsy updates and I'm like, what's going on this month? And then it's, it's honestly, as someone who has tried to open an Etsy shop in the past, like years ago, I'm not surprised that that video and that series has like blown up the channel and brought you so many subscribers because of how you go about it I think like even just looking back I feel like all of the pivots in your business but also like your job and then your degree I feel like all of that has positioned you really well to when you talk about Etsy it's like oh yeah there's creative but hey here's the actual business like you know what I mean I think it's so easy in roles that are more creative to just talk about the creative side and not really give tangible like hey this was here's the ROI, here's how much I actually earned, here's what worked, here's what didn't, you know what I mean? So yeah I just love to tell me how YouTube's going.
Dina Lu: Yeah well first of all thank you so much for watching. I don't expect like my friends to always watch my videos so I always appreciate it. In general my Etsy shop in the world of like youtubers who talk about etsy my my shop is not it's like not making a lot a lot of like the youtubers who talk about etsy they they have like five shops they've been doing it for three or five years and they're making like I don't know, $10,000 a month or something from Etsy. I think that's partly why it blew up, the one month on Etsy video, because I literally made 10 sales. It was like $100 or something that I made in the first month. And people, I think, they're so used to seeing all these YouTubers saying, oh, I made like $5,000, $10,000, or $100,000 with Etsy. So when I posted that video, it was just so realistic. And I think a lot of people related to that. So I think that's why. Yeah, that video did well. And then the whole series, like the monthly updates. And then I did make a couple like demo videos or like how to do this with Etsy or how to do that. Even with that, I would have like imposter syndrome because I'm not, I'm like, well, every month I'm only making like $300 from Etsy. Like who am I to talk about how to find your niche or how to do this on Etsy? But I think I just, like, even though I'm not making as much as the other Etsy YouTubers, I think I am still ahead of the people who have no Etsy shop, right? And it is, I mean, it's making $300, $400 a month, which is, I want it to be more, but I think it's like, if it's somebody who is making $0 from Etsy, they look at the $300 and they're like, wow, I wish I could do that. Like, how do you do that? So yeah, but anyways, I did have like some imposter syndrome with that niche, but in general, the YouTube has been Like in 2023, it was so fun and it was just so cool to see the channel grow. So I went from 5,000 subscribers to 50,000. So now I think I have about 55,000 subscribers, which I'm really happy about. And it's, yeah, I feel like the whole YouTube thing led to me, led to like a lot of other income streams. Like I'm doing brand deals now. And then I, my email list has also grown to like almost 10,000. people, but then like, but then also, you know, how like email marketing software is so expensive. So I'm like, Oh my God, I need to upgrade. It's going to be like $3,000 a year for the, for the next tier. So anyways, like, but anyways, like my audience has just grown a lot and I feel like, yeah, I've seen like a lot more income stream. So I, a couple, two months ago, I launched a Etsy listing photos course for about $100, $150. And now I'm starting to create my own digital products and sell them to my audience. And that's been really cool to see because my whole goal is like make passive income and be flexible and like not have so many meetings.
Ksenia: Yeah. How has that gone with like, I know obviously you have a pretty big group of people, right? You have your subscribers on YouTube, but then also like your email list. Have you found that, With this launch, has it gone how you'd want it to go? Did you see it be successful? I'm sure there's learning lessons.
Dina Lu: When I first launched the Etsy course, nobody bought anything for six weeks. I was so sad. Did I do something wrong? Is the price too high? Do people actually want this thing?" But in the last week of pre-selling it, 10 people bought it. So I'm like, oh, okay. So relieved people actually will pay money for it. So I had a period of time where I was just feeling so upset because nobody was buying it. But now I think about 15 people have bought it in total, including the 10 people from the pre-sale. So right now I think I just need to work on a funnel and use my email list better. I really think I'm not using my email list to the full capacity and it's not making me a lot of money to justify paying $3,000. So that's something I really want to focus on in 2024 is to make more like funnels, because right now I don't really have any funnels. Yeah, it's literally just a weekly newsletter.
Ksenia: Yeah. Well, I mean, honestly, that's that's better than not having a list. Also, like, I would say I think I have four people on mine. Mind you, I don't have like freebie or whatever, like, I don't have an opt in for them to sign up into. But I'm like, emailing myself, my sister, and then like two or three other random people. It's okay. I like for me, I'm like, it's the long game. I wonder looking back within that, those like five weeks of presale where nothing happened, really. Do you think that because I remember us talking about it, and I'm not sure if I remember the dates correctly. But did that kind of fall into the like Black Friday Christmas time? Or was that before?
Dina Lu: Oh, was it before? I don't remember. I feel like it might have been before? Actually, I can't remember it might have been around. Yeah, because people were buying it. Oh, yeah, I totally don't remember.
Ksenia: That might actually be something interesting to look at. Because at least I know for me as a buyer, especially during Black Friday for like courses or software, I'm like, I'm waiting until all the Black Friday things happen. And then it's like, three days to buy all the licenses I need. So That could be another reason why, but obviously funnels and all that stuff helps.
Dina Lu: Yeah, I need to learn more about funnels. But yeah, I think it does depend on the time of the year. Like right now, because it's the end of January that we're filming this, my Etsy shop has been doing a lot better because I sell Canva templates for business owners. So I think with New Year's resolutions, so many people are thinking, time to start a business. Let me buy all this stuff. So my Etsy shop's actually doing pretty good this month. But I think it'll go back down next month.
Ksenia: Yeah, no, there is there's definitely like seasonality to different businesses. I remember in one of my networking groups, they're saying that like, the start of the year is the time for anyone in health and fitness, like that is their highest time ever. So they're like, if you know anyone like in that industry, help get them referrals, like help their business by sharing or whatever. Because that's their like time of the year. Etsy. I'm like, I just keep thinking of all the things that I try. What did you try selling? Jewelry. So when I was in university, I tried to sell my jewelry on there, which to be honest, I never ended up selling any of it. I gave some of it away to my boyfriend's mom and then to my mom. And then I think I just gave another jeweler that I know all the scrap metal and everything. because that's such an expensive career. I like I went to university and I wanted to do a double major. And then I quickly realized that I can't do that because design is very intensive. And then jewelry is very intensive. And just knowing what I know design was like, okay, this I know I can get a job doing this with these skills. Whereas with jewelry, it's a lot harder. Initially, yeah. And then I was kind of like, I was spoiled by my high school teacher for jewelry. Like he got me into like using silver and gold and that's a very expensive like material to use, especially when you're learning and creating stuff. So yeah, I just had like, I spent so much money on that course. And then I just had leftover jewelry.
Dina Lu: And I was like, Okay, well, you still make jewelry now or not really? No, not really.
Ksenia: Mostly because I don't have a studio to go to.
Dina Lu: Oh, to do the soldering and all that?
Ksenia: Putting the metals together, okay. Yeah, because I used to go to my high school and then that teacher, my high school teacher, he retired and then the school got torn down and built new and then I'm like, you know what? It's okay. oh well if you still made jewelry now i would be like oh can you make me like i don't know some necklace or something i know someone she's awesome i actually went to high school with her and she was taught by the same high school teacher but she actually continued on into jewelry and i gave her all my stuff i'm like hey i'm back do you want all my materials so i'll share her information with you yes yeah share her information because i'm always like i don't want to buy jewelry from like big
Dina Lu: Companies like I'd rather you know, like a small business. Yeah, like a local. She's really good Yeah, but when you mentioned you starting an Etsy shop I totally thought you tried to sell like, you know graphic design stuff cuz I don't know like branding palettes, you know Because you do that And that's the thing when oh my gosh, so when I was like designing the Canva templates I was like it took me so long because I'm not a graphic designer. So I'm like thinking hmm Should I put this here? But now after one year of doing it, I'm so much faster at making things. But at the beginning, it took me so long to make everything because I'm not a graphic designer.
Ksenia: Yeah, it's funny you say that because when I did my Etsy shop, I think I tried to start it several times. One was the jewelry, but that was when I was in high school, university. I wasn't really thinking about what could I do with design. And then I tried to start one, I tried to start two for clothing because I wanted to have like a second business with my mom around clothing. But then we just could never find a good printer for what we wanted. And growing up with a mom in fashion, it's like the fabric is really important. So I didn't want to just like print a bunch of polyester shirts if I hate polyester. Like, I wanted it to be actually nice. And then we were just like, yeah, we're not going to do this. And then one was actually recent and like last year but then I just like it was like an evening of I'm gonna do this and then it was like no but it was always like I think knowing that my design studio is my like number one thing all these other things were like oh that's okay like if I don't focus on it so there wasn't that like fire oh I need to make this my thing
Dina Lu: Right. Yeah. And it sounds like because like you focus, like you do like design and graphic design, like every, every day, right. For your business. It sounds like if you started something else, like an Etsy shop, you would want it to be something completely different, right? Like clothing, jewelry.
Ksenia: Yeah. It's funny. Cause I had my business name this for a while, but the company with my mom, I wanted to call Likewise Collective. and then that's why I had that name for the fashion thing and then I just ended up using it for my design business and then yeah I was like I know that and then I changed it and the one that was recent was I wanted to make like kind of like graphic tees or like cool hoodies like within my style for my faith so like with scripture and stuff because there's I kept seeing like really girly ones I'm like I want something that's more like graphic. So like, what if I just create it? And then I tried playing around with it. And I'm like, yeah, this is gonna take more time. I'm just gonna like, go relax and do a puzzle. So yeah, you're very right. Like, I think if I was to start an Etsy shop, focusing on design stuff, then I would just have it under my business. Like there'd be no reason to have it be a separate thing. Because it's Yeah. It seems like a lot of work.
Dina Lu: It's all creative.
Ksenia: Yeah. Looking back at everything we've talked about, obviously your journey and where you are now, are there key lessons or moments that you remember where you're like, OK, this kind of stuck with you, whether it was a lesson or, God forbid, a bad client experience, but stuff like that?
Dina Lu: Oh, I feel like there were lessons all the time but if I had to pick like one or two I feel like this is like really cliche but I say this like all the time in my youtube videos it's like believe in yourself that you can do this and like don't put so much pressure on yourself and have a timeline but just like if you keep going and if you don't give up like you can do it even if you have to like pivot a whole bunch of times like me or like do some part-time side gigs If you just keep going, you will be successful at whatever you want to do. I think another one that I really struggled with was I spent two to three years working on my business and feeling like it wasn't really successful. So I felt like a failure all the time and I was doubting myself. But I worked with one business coach who made me write a new definition of success. Because I used to think success was like achieving this many followers or having this much money. But my new definition of success that I wrote was success is learning and growing every day. So if I do that every day, if I'm learning something or if I'm just working on my business and growing, then I am successful. So it's like that mindset. So instead of like chasing some number, it's like, what am I doing every single day?
Ksenia: Yeah, that's so important. I feel like I think I might have talked with someone else or one of the previous guests about this, where just having a number or like, I guess kind of inheriting success from the world, especially from social media, I feel like, and if you have your own business, like you said, success could be like, 50,000 month $50,000 months, because you see people online doing that. And that's like, Oh, this is the this is the way. But it is so important to actually be like, Okay, do I want that? Is that actually what I want to do? Do I want to put in the work that it takes to do that? And I know, at least for me, I've kind of reviewed that over the past year of what do I actually want. I want to be able to go do my puzzle if I feel like it and not be working 24-7.
Dina Lu: I was listening to another podcast recently. It's Amanda Colby's podcast. And she was talking about the three types of businesses. So there's a passion business, there's a lifestyle business, and there's a achievement business. So I think for us, it's more Well, I don't think it's the achievement thing, because the achievement one is like, oh, I want to make $100,000 every single month, and I just want the money. I just want to accomplish a lot. For us, I think it's more like the passion and the lifestyle kind of business, where we want to enjoy what we're doing, but then also create a certain lifestyle, where we're not working so much, and we can have fun and do our own thing.
Ksenia: Yeah, I agree. And also to note, there's nothing wrong with being an achievement. business or for going after those things if that's what you want to do. I think that's the thing is like is it actually what you want to do or is it just something that you feel like you have to do because it's like the success or the way because when I think back to like my most successful year on paper as a business I was working so much and I like I remember specifically like the the month and a half before Christmas and holiday break was insane. And every time I come to that time in the year, I'm like, okay, it's time to plan, email your people, put a time block on like how many hours you're working, because I never want it to be like that. Just like, yeah, it was a successful year, but to what, like, at what cost, I guess? Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I'm like, definitely like passion, because I love what I do. But also, lifestyle like I want to take a break if I need to or like one of the benefits of working for myself is I get to babysit my niece and like that's really great. So I know you've already touched on some key things that were really important and things you've learned. Is there anything else that you want to share that's made a huge difference in just your journey or even your business or even like right now this time in your business whether it's the mindset like you just shared or actual tangible things like growing your email list to 10,000 people.
Dina Lu: I guess one thing I didn't mention, um, in our conversation was I got a lot of help. So I got like coaching, like me and you, we were in that coaching group and I joined different people's memberships. I bought courses. And so I think for people who are starting a business or maybe they've already started, but they feel stuck or they feel like, oh, they don't know like one specific thing and they want to learn more. I've always been a huge fan of like investing in myself and joining programs or getting coaching. And that has, I feel like without the coaching and the programs, like I wouldn't be here today because Yeah, the ones I joined, I guess they're different ones, but some are more mindset, some help me more grow as a person and help me have confidence, but some are more like the strategy. So I've joined both kinds. And I would say, if I didn't have those, I really wouldn't be where I am. Yeah, getting mentors, but then also joining like a community where there are people doing like a similar thing as you, I think is so important. And I regularly have like catch ups with just like other content creators or other people just, you know, having like an online business. And we used to do that too, right? When we were in that group. So I think that's super important.
Ksenia: On that topic, are there courses or mentorship that really made a difference for you and ones that didn't? Like, have you Because I know, obviously, I love learning too, but I also know from my experience, like, if I could go back, I would have not done this. I would have like, do you know what I mean? How has that been like for you?
Dina Lu: Yeah, so yeah, so I think not all of them were helpful. And I did feel like sometimes I wasted a little bit of money. But I would say for people who are thinking of getting a mentor or joining a program, really follow that, I guess that person or that group for a while, if you're going to invest a lot of money into it. So I, at the very beginning in 2020, when I was just trying to do coaching, I hired a coach who She didn't actually believe that I could make money coaching because I had just quit my job six months before that. I could just feel that she didn't think it was possible. So anyways, I fired her. I had two or three sessions and I was like, I feel like you don't think I can do this. She's trying to tell me to do some other stuff and not coaching. So I was like, I don't think he, okay. Anyways, I fired her. And then there was somebody else that I was following for a really long time. And then I hired her to be my coach. And I like five X my investment. Cause I launched, I finally launched coaching. I launched like one-on-one coaching and then group coaching. And so that coach was probably like the best money I spent ever in my business. Cause it like, we worked on so many things, like, It was mainly the imposter syndrome. I didn't feel qualified to coach calligraphers on how to start a business because I just quit my job recently. And yeah, that coach, I think every year I give her an update. I'm like, oh my God, this is happening. This is really exciting. And thanks to you, I'll never forget you. Thank you so much. I think that one coach made a huge difference. And then after that I did join other programs and they were really, really good but I think that one coach really stood out because that was the first coach I had where I really made a lot of money after working with her.
Ksenia: That's awesome, I'm happy to hear that because there are horror stories, unfortunately. Do you have a way of selecting if you're going to work with someone or do a course? I know for me I've had to like create a list of like, okay, here's my priorities. Do I vibe with them and all of that? So I'm curious if you have a way of filtering, okay, is this worth my time and money?
Dina Lu: Yeah, I think I do. I recently actually was in a membership program for six months. And the reason why I want to get some coaching was because I felt so lost with doing brand deals. Like I didn't know what to charge. So I was looking for like a very, very specific thing. And I was following this. Well, his name is Roberto Blake. He has about half a million YouTube subscribers. So he he supports creators in their journey. And I was I watched a lot of his videos. And then I decided to join his membership. And so I think for people who are trying to figure out who's a good fit for them, I think you need to consume their content for a little bit and see like do they actually have the knowledge that they can share with me and do I vibe with that person. So I think those are the two main things I look for. I think sometimes like even if you think that person's a really good fit for you and then like you try it out and then you figure out maybe they're not, like you can always you can always end the program or just say to them nicely, like, hey, I thought it was going to be this, this, this, but it's this, this, this. Can I drop out and say it nicely? And I think most people are pretty good with being okay with that.
Ksenia: No, I mean I've had some horror stories with courses and trying to be like this is not what I signed up for but thankfully I've come across some more and more people that are understanding and actually have like empathy or like okay this isn't what you signed up for so bye. Other than coaching or like paid courses is there anything else that's really helped you along the way?
Dina Lu: I think one thing I'm a big fan of is routines, like morning routines, evening routines, self-care, like taking care of yourself, being healthy. Because I think like when we're working, And when we're trying to grow a business, when we're using our laptop and just like doing a work, that is a big part of it. But I think everything else that you do outside of work is super important to help you in being successful as an entrepreneur. So like getting enough sleep, eating healthy, especially if you're doing something creative, you can't really work unless you feel good about yourself. And I'm sure you know that Ksenia So yeah, taking care of myself and Yeah, I've really made that a priority. Just yesterday, it's been raining a lot in Vancouver, right? And it was cloudy yesterday, not raining. And even though I had a lot of work to do yesterday, I was like, I'm going to go for a run. And I went for the run, and it was just great. And I felt so refreshed. And then I got back into doing my work, feeling just so much more inspired. And I have a lot more energy.
Ksenia: Yeah, I still get that for me, like, it's still it's still a work in progress. Because especially with it being creative, like, I don't know if you feel this too, but sometimes you just get in the zone. And then it's like, time flies by somehow, it's already like 7pm. And I'm like, I should probably eat something. But at least for me, I'm trying like, I love puzzles too much, maybe. So I always have a puzzle on the go. So now I'm like trying to be like, No, you can leave your laptop and then just go puzzle and you'll be good tomorrow. And then, yeah, getting like, I think taking breaks, I know for at least for my brain, sometimes it helps to have more like active breaks versus just sitting. Because that's not for my brain.
Dina Lu: I have this thing. Let me show you. Well, I guess for people who can't see the video, I have like this timer thingy because I use this technique called the Pomodoro technique. I'm not sure if you know it. So you work 25 minutes, really focused work, and then you take a break for five minutes. Because I used to be like you, like I would be like trimming a video and be like really in the zone and it would be like two hours and oh my god I have to pee. Like I didn't drink water or I have to pee. And so like I've been using this method for like years and it just helps me to like take like take breaks and not get so carried away with my work. Because I find that if I am just like working straight for two hours I'll feel so burnt out afterwards and like it's really hard to work after that. But having these little five-minute breaks, I think it really helps. I love that technique so much, I got this specific timer thingy.
Ksenia: Karly I've seen those before. There's a group that I really like, I don't know if you've heard of them, but it's called Cave Days. It's an online co-working, monotasking community. It's kind of the Pomodoro technique, but you do it for an hour session, so you do an hour sprint. saying what you're doing they do like breakout rooms for a minute all of this is on zoom and then you like talk to people hey i'm working on this and then they'll have some like random question like what are you drinking today which for me is always cold coffee that was hot at one point but i really like that because it's that accountability like you have to keep your camera on and it's a bit different but i've noticed that when i have that sort it's a membership so you do pay for it, but it's like the cheapest out of that group of membership. And it's actually really useful.
Dina Lu: Yeah, that's really cool. I feel like I'm the kind of person I don't like, like, I never like working in libraries or cafes with other people around. But like, I know a lot of people like that. And so that sounds like perfect. That sounds perfect. If you're like just working at home, and then you have these people like with you.
Ksenia: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting that you mentioned that because I totally like if I go to a coffee shop, I like I can't be doing intense work, like has to be like emails, or maybe I just need to like, do some site edits that are really light because I also I'm like, who's watching my screen? So yeah, it's coffee shops are like, when are like, it really just depends on what's going on that day. But I agree with you, I don't necessarily like working in those scenarios. But I don't know, there's just something about it. It's like, I'm in the comfort of my home. So I can be like, Yeah, that's true.
Dina Lu: It's like kind of like an in between.
Ksenia: So yeah, for anyone listening cave days, check it out. I actually have an affiliate link. So I'll put it in the links. But I Yeah, it's been really useful, especially for the days when I'm like, I don't want to work like I can't get motivated. If I just book in for that time, then my like, people pleaser. Don't don't like miss a meeting, it kicks in and then I have to show up.
Dina Lu: So and that's, that's great. You found that I'm glad it works.
Ksenia: Me too. I'm like, okay, we're sticking with this. Yeah. Okay. So to wrap up, is there anything else that you'd love to share before we talk about where people can find you?
Dina Lu: I think we covered a lot. So not really but if people have any questions or you know if you're if you listen to this and you're trying to start a youtube or whatever feel free to email me or message me on instagram cool and i guess i i know you're gonna ask me like where can people find me i'm the most active on youtube and instagram so my youtube you can just search my name dina lu My Instagram is dinadilu, so D-I-N-A-D-L-U. And if you have any questions, feel free to message me, or you can email me, and my email is dina at dinacalligraphy.com. If you're trying to start an Etsy shop, and specifically one where you sell digital products, like Canva templates or like Excel budgeting trackers, I do have a course called the Etsy Listing Photos course where I teach you how to make listing photos and listing videos. I also have another course called the Calligraphy Instructor Academy, but it's like very, very niche. It's for calligraphers who want to teach workshops. And that course I made about two years ago, but that's also something that I sell. Oh, and I guess one more thing. I do offer one-off coaching sessions. So if you're not trying to start an Etsy shop and you're not trying to teach workshops, I do offer just general business coaching for everybody.
Ksenia: I know you don't share your Etsy shop on your YouTube. Yeah, I don't know where you're at with keeping it a secret or not.
Dina Lu: So it's a pretty big secret, so I literally don't tell anyone. Like, I'll show you personally because I think the main thing is like, people always ask me, oh yeah, why don't you share your Etsy shop so you can get more sales? But there's a lot of people who will copy Like, I know most of my subscribers are not going to copy, but there are always people who are like, oh, this worked for Dina. I'm going to just, like, do the same thing. And I've already, I haven't shared my Etsy shop publicly, but people are, people have already copied my products. Like, other Etsy shop owners who don't know that my shop is, you know, Dina lu. Like, they've copied my products.
Ksenia: Okay. Keeping it a secret. I also was just thinking probably also for your metrics, because then you, it's the most, like. Yeah, that's another thing.
Dina Lu: Yeah. Yeah. So if a lot of people click into it and they're just like, Oh, I wonder what Dina is selling and they don't buy it. It makes my conversion really, really low.
Ksenia: Yeah. Keeping that a secret. Yeah. But I'll send it to you. You can take it.
Dina Lu: Sounds good. Keep it a secret.
Ksenia: Thank you so much for coming on as a guest. It was awesome to actually like have an episode with someone that I know in real life for more than just like the past year. So, yeah. Thank you so much for being a guest.
Dina Lu: Yeah, thank you so much. I had so much fun.
Ksenia: Thank you for joining us for today's episode. I'm very excited for this podcast. And I'd love to hear any feedback what you thought about it, please let me know as I want to make this a very useful resource for you. We have some amazing interviews coming up as well as some solo episodes. So keep an eye out for those subscribe if you want to be notified when those come out, and have them automatically go into your podcast player of choice. All the links mentioned will be in the show notes and also on the podcast page on my site. And lastly, if you'd like to be a guest on the show or have a topic you'd like me to cover, please reach out to me at podcast at kseniaa.co. And that concludes our episode. I hope you enjoyed it. Again, please give me feedback. I want to make this really awesome for you, and I hope you have a great day. Thanks for listening.
